Ep. 52: Matthew Johnson - Can psilocybin treat addiction and depression? - Johns Hopkins
Dr. Matthew Johnson is the associate professor of psychiatry at Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine. He is an experimental psychologist and an expert on psychoactive drugs (such as psilocybin) in the psychology of addiction and risk behavior for over 12 years.
In this podcast Dr. Johnson describes how the psychoactive drugs act like a psychological therapy, where self observation can be heightened like a helicopter shortcutting a patient to the top of the mountain to deal with addiction or depression. Often only one experience is life changing. Unlike most traditional drugs, psilocybin is not addictive and there are no known lethal doses. In addition, this type of therapy works to treat the underlying roots of disorders rather than treating symptoms.
Psychoactive drugs tend to connect different areas of the brain, causing synchronicity to occur. Dr. Matthew Johnson explains that often times facing the adversity in life is where you find the meaning in it.
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BOOKS MENTIONED IN THE PODCAST
How to Change Your Mind: What the New Science of Psychedelics Teaches Us About Consciousness, Dying, Addiction, Depression, and Transcendence by Michael Pollan
Distilled Spirits by Don Lattin
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Show Notes
[04:57] These are tools to understand the mind and also as potential therapeutics for a number of psychiatric disorders. And the exciting thing is that they seem to work by prompting a psychological experience. And this is where they really differ from all other psychiatric drugs -- they are more like psychological therapy. Administering a psychedelic puts the person in a vulnerable state, but one in which in the right environment they can have these extraordinarily different experiences and they can interact with their own mind, so to speak, in a very different way. And so introspection and self observation can be heightened.
[08:19] On the positive side, in addition to the low physiological toxicity is the low addiction potential. No one is Jonesing for their next fix of psilocybin or LSD.
[09:30] Morphine, which is naturally occurring in the opium poppy--then a slight tweak of that makes that heroin.
[9:37] You mentioned this earlier that psychedelics sort of open up your mind. Can you speak to that versus pharmaceutical drugs numbing the symptoms?
[09:55] They are able to get to the underlying roots of disorders rather than treating symptoms.
[10:43] So, for example, with addiction, most addiction medications in psychiatry are many of them are so-called substitution or agonist therapy.
[34:51] There is a broad scale change in the way in which brain areas interact with each other. And so normally there is a compartmentalization where there's sort of a hubs in the brain where this little area is off doing its own thing and it's talking to a certain subset of areas related to it.
[35:35] But then when the psychedelic is on board, there tends to be more of a global cross talk, a synchronization, the activity in an area whose activity is normally unrelated to activity, you know, the area is now all the sudden related. And by related, I mean you can look at synchronization. It's not necessarily about things being more or less active. It's about what is the pattern of that activity or inactivity.
[37:38] Winston Churchill quote is, “If you find yourself going through hell, keep going”. You know, and that's the orientation we encourage during our session, not necessarily put that way, but if the monster is there. Don't run away in your mind's eye. Go up to it and say, what are you doing in my mind? Let's talk turkey. You know, what do you represent? What's going on here? If you see something about yourself that you don't like it, dig into it. Knock those cobwebs out of the way, explore the basement. Just don't retreat.
[38:06] Take a courageous orientation to facing yourself and facing your difficulties. And it's sort of like a microcosm of life. People come to these sessions saying that's how you orient towards life. You've got to face it. There's horrors all around. If you're not facing them or you haven't just, you know, wait. You know, if you live long enough, you will. And it doesn't matter what your status in life is. The beauty is that there is a transcendence possible and it's almost because of that backdrop. That's what makes it meaningful. Like that's ultimately the point is define the beauty and the love and the transcendence despite the potential for the horror. Face the adversity and find the meaning in it.
[39:09] Facing with courage, whatever comes into your life. And then when you do face it, somehow, some way it can become a paper tiger. Some way somehow.
Thank you for joining us on HealthGig. We loved having you with us. We hope you'll tune in again next week. In the meantime, be sure to like and subscribe to this podcast, and follow us on healthgigpod.com.
“Psilocybin is able to get to the underlying roots of disorders rather than treating symptoms.” – Dr. Matthew Johnson
“Take a courageous orientation to facing yourself and facing your difficulties.” – Dr. Matthew Johnson
“If you see something about yourself that you don't like it, dig into it. ”– Dr. Matthew Johnson
“Face with courage, whatever comes into your life. And then when you do face it, somehow, some way it can become a paper tiger. Some way somehow. ” – Dr. Matthew Johnson
Keywords
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