The Colossal Endeavor: Unveiling the Future of De-Extinction with Ben Lamm
Join hosts Doro and Tricia as they delve into the groundbreaking world of de-extinction with their special guest, Ben Lamm, the co-founder and CEO of Colossal Biosciences. In this fascinating episode, Ben provides an in-depth exploration of Colossal's mission to revive extinct species, including the iconic wooly mammoth, through cutting-edge genetic engineering and species preservation techniques.
From the ethical considerations and scientific challenges to the potential ecological and climate impact, Ben shares invaluable insights into the multifaceted journey of de-extinction. Discover how Colossal is leading the charge in redefining humanity's relationship with the natural world and shaping a future where extinct species roam once again.
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Website: https://colossal.com/
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Quotes:
“The problem is that modern conservation doesn't work at the speed at which we are changing the planet.” - Ben Lamm
“Colossal is the world's first de-extinction and species preservation company. It came about just because I'm a curious person. - Ben Lamm
“We have set a very big, hairy, colossal, audacious goal: 2028 for our first wooly mammoth calves. Currently, we feel very good about the timeline.” - Ben Lamm
Show Notes:
BEN LAMM: There's no question on the wall. It's the same with the southern Tasmanian tiger is also sometimes referred to as the Tasmanian wolf. And it was actually on 60 minutes. We were in 60 minutes the other day and they were talking about it. And even 60 minutes they were like, you know, they were hunted to extinction. The Tasmanian tigers, even though they're technically marsupials because they preyed on sheep, they didn't prey on sheep. There's no data that shows they ever preyed on sheep. They actually probably couldn't prey on sheep, maybe a dead sheep. But for the most part, they preyed on smaller mezzanine marsupials, right, in kind of their ecological stack. Same thing with wolves, right? Less than like point one or point 2% of livestock. Ever get hurt by a wolf? Which is insane, right? Yet there's all of this backlash on wolves, and we get taught as a kid, like, who eats little Red Riding Hood, the wolves? Who's gonna break down and kill the pigs? The wolves, the big bad wolf. Right. There was an interesting study that came out last year about these nine big keystone species, elephants being one, wolves being another one. That was like, if you can just save these species and make more of them, you'd say, like offsets all of the carbon that all of our cars are.
BEN LAMM: It's crazy, these nature-based solutions. And the wolves got a really bad rap. And they've seen this in Yellowstone. So they called all the wolves. And I think this is what you're talking about, Trisha. They called all the wolves in 1925. 70 years later, in 1995, they reintroduced a handful of them, and within a few years, it completely changed even the course of rivers. Because when the Keystone Predators are there, you know they don't go after the absolute strong and healthy. They pick off the weak and the old and the disease state. Right? So they actually make those herds healthier. They also make them non-sedentary so they will actually migrate. That means that those herbivores like the elk and the deer and others will actually go around the park and eat in different areas, not just in one area and degrade it. Right. And so they've seen things like beavers come back and songbirds come back, and they've actually had the waters deepen because the beavers now have an area, they can build dams and none of that flora and all, all of those trees and small shrubs were getting eaten by the elk because they weren't migrating. Right. And so it's so crazy, this ripple effect that you have in nature, if things are kind of in the right balance, but you can't take a big keystone animal out like a predator or everything falls apart, they're saying that the Tasmanian tiger, its absence is why the Tasmanian.
BEN LAMM: This disease is awful. It's this disease that it's the only transmissible cancer that we know of at least. And it transfers from face to face when they're eating and fighting. But what's realistic, though, and it makes it where they can't see. And it's a terrible disease for the animal, but it's also bad for the ecosystem. And so back to predators. If you have the right predators in the ecosystem like the Tasmanian tiger, it would have most likely eaten the animals that couldn't walk very well or couldn't see very well. Predators expend energy very efficiently. They're not going to go after the absolute prime cooking right of the animal. They're going to go after the sick or on the weekends. They're super helpful in kind of maintaining the health of these different animal subpopulations. I think people think predators just eat everything is like they really don't. They eat what they need to and they are very targeted with what they kill. It's crazy to me that the Tasmanian devil is now endangered, probably because we eradicated the Tasmanian tiger.
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